Fell To Low - Urizen (Self Released) (2014)

Stream it via bandcamp.

I recently picked up a Four Hundred Years 7" and a Hoover/Lincoln split 7". Both are great. They're nice relics of emo before it became sensitive sniveling safe rock. The genre was derived from hardcore, not the local acoustic open mic. It appears Southern California's Fell To Low was a fan of the loud dynamic stylings of these bands, as their newest single, "Urizen," gives a confident nod to the genre that apex'd by the late nineties. Fell To Low features members of Minus and Nails so it's safe to expect high energy and competency at playing fast and loud. Having recently signed to Revelation I'm sure there's a well produced upcoming full length on the horizon. If it sounds anything like "Urizen" then we are very fortunate. I just realized that "horizon" and "Urizen" rhyme, that would've been cool if I did something with that. They also rhyme with "Verizon." If only they rhymed with "well written review."

Uniform - Uniform (Beggar's Tomb) (2014)

I'm absolutely thrilled. Michael Berdan of Veins/Drunkdriver and Ben Greenberg of The Men/Pygmy Shrews have started a new project, Uniform. It's takes the loud noises of their previous projects and pushes them further into the red. Uniform doesn't seem like something My Nine-Year-Old Nephew would like so I opted to send their song, "Our Blood," to My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew.

Me:
have you heard uniform yet?

My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew:
no i really fucking want to though because they have the coolest logo ever

Me:
what are you waiting for?

My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew:
where can i hear them

Me:
http://soundcloud.com/thebanduniform

My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew:
this is way too hard to listen to imo haha

Me:
too intense for you?

My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew:
it's just like noise

Me:
that's what people say when they first hear punk.

My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew:
dude everyone that's into this type of shit are liars or fucked in the head

My Nineteen-Year-Old Nephew was not thrilled. He wouldn't have liked the b-side, "Of Sound Mind And Body," either. It starts more reserved but by the end climaxes into full auditory overload. I am absolutely thrilled.

-Z

White Fence - For The Recently Found Innocent (Drag City) (2014)

For The Recently Found Innocent is my first time listening to White Fence. I had heard the name in peripheral but always associated it with Ty Segall and the countless Southern California based Burger Records soundalikes. Whoops. I should've listened earlier. White Fence is Tim Presley. Tim Presley previously played in The Nerve Agents. The Nerve Agents were one of my favorite Bay Area hardcore bands. So of course White Fence is sick. Of course For The Recently Found Innocent is sick. Of course. Whoops.

White Fence is 60's British guitar pop. For The Recently Found Innocent is completely derivative. For The Recently Found Innocent is completely memorable. For The Recently Found Innocent is completely complete. Psychedelic pop in 2014 can be more than lava lampooning and Tim Presley has recorded proof. You get the point. I didn't. Whoops.

-Z

Lantlôs - Melting Sun (Prophecy) (2014)

If guys who looked like this:

, worked in places that looked like this:

, they would endlessly listen to Lantlôs' Melting Sun. Unlike contemporaries Alcest, they don't endlessly wallow in moonbeams. Melting Sun is engaging. Listen to the heavy tremolo picking in the second track, "Cherry Quartz," and tell me you're not banging head into the quartz crystal display case. And unlike previous Lantlôs records, gone are Neige and his screaming vocals. The vocals are now sung. Melting Sun is a crowning achievement in the wave of parent-friendly black metal influenced rock. Goodbye mysterious fog machines, hello chakra cleansing burning sage.

-Z

Interview: Sara Taylor (Youth Code, Sissy Spacek)

"We've put one leg of our big boy pants on."
Youth Code is about to drop a new EP, A Place To Stand. You're going to hear it soon and you're going to love it sooner. One listen to the debut single, "Consuming Guilt," and your heart is fluttering in time with the pristine piston pumping production as Sara Taylor screams at you.

Youth Code is one of Los Angeles' best. I saw Sara Taylor somewhere and I was like, "Yo, we should do an interview." It was probably at Cha Cha. She kindly accepted. So on Thursday, September fourth, we sat down at Fix Coffee and talked. Oddly enough, halfway through the interview Tim Presley walked up and we all talked about The Nerve Agents. I'm not sure if he knew the conversation was being recorded so I didn't include the dialogue and especially wouldn't include any talks of a Nerve Agents reunion.

Sara Taylor and I didn't talk about our weird things. But we did talk about how to properly tour with your boyfriend/bandmate. We did talk about how hard it is for Sara Taylor to trust anyone who doesn't like Motorhead or Pantera. So listen to "Consuming Guilt" and read all the wonderful things Sara Taylor said as I periodically interrupted with benign banter.


facebook.com/youthcodeforever
youthcode.bandcamp.com

Sara Taylor:
You should buy painfulburning.com.

Painful Burning:
My first question is, should I buy painfulburning.com?

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, I think you should buy painfulburning.com because it's not a market that's capitalized on yet. Do you think painfulburning is already a porn site?

Painful Burning:
I don't think it would be.

Sara Taylor:
It's a category, right?

Painful Burning:
Maybe. But it's gross.

Sara Taylor:
I feel like people are into some really weird things.

Painful Burning:
Do you have a weird thing?

Sara Taylor:
Sure.

Painful Burning:
Can you tell me about it?

Sara Taylor:
I think it's too early in the day for me to talk about the weird things.

Painful Burning:
Do you have youthcode.com?

Sara Taylor:
No. There's a very funny story about it though.

Painful Burning:
Tell me about it.

Sara Taylor:
I probably shouldn't because we still don't have URL yet.

Sara Taylor on the phone with her manager.

Sara's phone rings.

Painful Burning:
You are blowing up today.

Sara Taylor:
It's a pretty hectic day.

Painful Burning:
Sorry.

Sara Taylor:
It's all good, it's just my wonderful boyfriend.

Painful Burning:
Does he know that we're doing this interview?

Sara Taylor:
Yes, he does. He actually asked why you didn't come into the house because he wanted to greet you in his pajamas.

Painful Burning:
Is he mad that I'm interviewing you?

Sara Taylor:
No. He was actually happy about it. He is okay with me doing a lot of stuff. When we started it he was like, "I want you to feel as confident as I know you are capable of being." But I don't think that he realized that everyone was going to talk to me about stuff. He called himself my backup dancer once. I thought that was pretty funny. Although I don't agree because I think Ryan is the most important part of the band. It's funny to see that he enjoys taking a backseat on stuff. So whenever it comes to interviews or press requests or whatever, he's like, "Do whatever you want. I don't want to talk to anyone anyways."

Painful Burning:
I was hoping he'd be a little jealous.

Sara Taylor:
I'm sure he's a little jealous. I'm sure deep inside he's got some painful burning of jealousy.

Painful Burning:
Thank you. I wonder about this because you live together, how do you separate band time from hang out time? Normally when you see a bandmate you can formulate ideas with them or whatever, but you two are always together.

Sara Taylor:
It's difficult. It's not easy. The way that we write and the way that we do stuff is so weird anyways. I feel like it's a weird process. We'll say that we know we have a deadline, we have to have this by this time or else we're fucked. So we'll set these deadlines where we're like, "We have to get something done." It's usually super close to when the actual thing is. If we have a deadline for, let's say September tenth-

Painful Burning:
-Let's say September eleventh.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, September eleventh. We would probably start doing stuff on September seventh. And just rush and get it all together. Because we spend so much time together being a couple and going, "That's cool, that's alright. This is neat, that's not." It's never a band thing where it's like, "I don't live with you and then we get together." He'll be fucking with a synthesizer thing and I'll say, "That's pretty interesting. Alright. I'll touch on that later." And then when it gets closer to the deadline then we're down each other's throats and hate each other. But we get it done.

Painful Burning:
Instead of actually isolating time to work on the band you organically end up getting things done because of the deadlines.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah.

Painful Burning:
That makes sense. I know touring can be stressful, how does that effect-

Sara Taylor:
Touring is actually super easy on our relationship and cool.

Painful Burning:
How did you know I was going to ask that?

Sara Taylor:
I don't know. You said that it could be stressful.

Painful Burning:
That was the question.

Sara Taylor:
Was it really?

Painful Burning:
Yeah.

Sara Taylor:
I didn't read any of your notes. I'm not looking at your hand of cards.

Painful Burning:
I don't think you can read my handwriting anyways.

Sara Taylor:
I can't. I actually can't.

Painful Burning:
Before I interrupted, you were saying it's not stressful.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, nothing is bad. I was worried at first. I lived on tour. Right when I left high school I started going on tour. For me it's natural. I'm used to never having my own space or never having my own bedroom. I didn't get my own apartment until five years ago. I've lived in apartments before but I rarely ever pay rent. I'd usually throw my stuff at my mom's house and figure it out when I got home. Ryan hadn't done a lot of touring. He toured but not to the extent that I had so I think for him it was a little stressful at first getting used to being like, "I'm with my girlfriend but there's other people around us all the time." When we shared that van with Coming we always made sure we got our own hotel room. I always tried to make sure that Ryan had enough time for him so he could chill and think about things. I think he gets finicky when he doesn't have time to reflect with himself. And I think it's healthy in a relationship to get that sort of separation. We've gotten it down pretty good. But I don't like to do things without Ryan anyways so it's better for our relationship that we get to travel and see the world together. When I have to tour and do stuff with other bands, because I still go out and tour, I hate it. I hate having to Facetime my boyfriend or Facetime my dog. It's fucking annoying.

Painful Burning:
It's so crazy you two met in Moscow when you were both touring, it's a very rock 'n' roll romance story.

Sara Taylor:
I met him in Red Square.

Painful Burning:
It's crazy, it sounds like you're making it up. And with all this history you've had with touring you know how to set it up so the problems that could arise have already been paved out.

Sara Taylor:
We wouldn't have even gotten close to where we were if I hadn't been able to iron out all the kinks that could've existed with touring stuff. I know how to bargain with rental van companies. I know what areas are good to book shows in. Who you want to talk to. All these things I just learned from sitting there selling t-shirts for metal bands forever. I think that's why it's a lot easier.

Painful Burning:
At what point in your relationship did you decide to start creating something together?

Sara Taylor:
It was super weird how Youth Code started. It all started because I had some weird moment of having pride. Ryan had talked about wanting to get the red ESX Sampler for a while. I was on tour with Behemoth, I found it for super cheap, and I had a bunch money. I was like, "Okay, I'll just buy this sampler, whatever happens happens." We hadn't really decided we were doing a band or anything. Vacation was doing an employee only showcase and asked me to DJ. I was like, "No, I have a band." They were like, "No you don't." And I was like, "Yeah, it's called Youth Code." They were looking at me so strangely.

Painful Burning:
Because you were lying.

Sara Taylor:
Because everybody knew I was lying. I went home and we wrote three songs in five days and came up with some weird ambient stuff. That's what became the demo tape. That was it. It started and hasn't stopped since.

Painful Burning:
The band started with a deadline.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah.

Painful Burning:
Which is what you said is the whole process of the group.

Sara Taylor:
That's how it works. I just create a stressful situation or one of us gets into some sort of stress with time and then it happens. When we did this last EP we had written stuff, decided we didn't like it, knew we had headline, scrapped the whole EP, and rewrote it within the time of the deadline.

Painful Burning:
That's very Kevin Shields of you.

Sara Taylor:
It was so stupid.

Sara Taylor and Ryan William George are Youth Code.

Painful Burning:
Would you guys ever consider adding a third member?

Sara Taylor:
We've talked about having hired gun people for live. But I don't think there would ever a be a third member in the writing process, no. Ryan only has two hands, right? I can't sing and flail around and do synthesizers at the same time. I think electronic musicians are usually pretty boring on stage because they don't have that front person thing. There's a dude with a laptop and a Madonna microphone. Not that I mind that, but it's just not what we are. We're more akin to being a hardcore band and running around and being chaotic. So I think that if we were to add anybody it would be somebody that could just assist Ryan with live arpeggiation or live synth stuff. But there's never going to be a third real member of Youth Code. Ever.

Painful Burning:
Hopefully when you add a third member they don't read you saying that.

Sara Taylor:
I hope that they do read me saying that. I hope they know I would be paying them for their time only. That would be like if Ryan and I had a baby and then we said, "Zed, you're other dad. But your title is 'Dad.'" Wouldn't that be confusing for the baby?

Painful Burning:
Yeah, but I think I would make it cool for the baby.

Sara Taylor:
I'm sure you would make it cool. I'm sure anybody that wanted to add to our band would probably make it cool. But we don't need that confusion in our baby's life. We just want one mommy, one daddy. We don't need Three's Company 2.

Painful Burning:
Are you informally asking me to join the band right now? It sounds pretty obvious with the analogy.

Sara Taylor:
Maybe you could add some elements.

Painful Burning:
We'll talk more about that off the record. A Place To Stand is your new EP coming out on Dais. There are original tracks and remixes?

Sara Taylor:
There's four original tracks and four remixes. The remixes are super cool because I grew up listening to a lot of these remix EPs. Skinny Puppy would put out twelve inches that had remixes. Fear Factory did that Remanufacture record that was Rhys Fulber from Front Line Assembly redoing the Fear Factory records. Everyone had all these remixes from KMFDM and Günter Schulz. I fucking loved that shit when I was growing up. Remixing is a cool way for people also involved in different aspects of things that make up electronic music doing their take on what we're doing. It's fucking sweet. It always sounds completely different but within a spectrum that we'll understand. As much as I like doing the new songs I was more excited about the remixes and what other people would add to the element of what we were doing as a band. For me there's four corners of industrial production. There's the heavy and metal side of it. Everyone goes, "Industrial is sort of similar to metal but not." So we got a metal dude, this guy Sanford Parker, who played in Corrections House. He's a really amazing producer. He was in Nachtmystium for a little bit. He's a fucking really talented dude. He brought the metal element of it. Then we had Clipping, which is that hip-hop group that uses all power electronics and noise to do all of their beats. Rap also has the same production style as electronic music.

Painful Burning:
Same software.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, same thing. Then we had a true industrial act which was God Module who brought their take on it. Then we had Silent Servant which is a minimal techno dude add his aspect to it. So it was all these different corners of electronic based production or industrial influence that we had for the remixes and it all came out fucking great.

Painful Burning:
Using your analogy with the kid it's like they were babysitters.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, we had babysitters.

Painful Burning:
And they all did different songs?

Sara Taylor:
They did songs off of the last LP. I don't know if I'm allowed to give away what songs they did. I'm sure I could tell you off the record.

Painful Burning:
I won't prod too much.

Sara Taylor:
Chris Hansell might get mad at you.

Painful Burning:
Because I'd be the one who published this information?

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, you're the narc on what's going on.

Painful Burning:
Why should I fear Chris Hansell?

Sara Taylor:
Have you ever seen Warthog play? He's a crazy dude.

Painful Burning:
No, he's not.

Sara Taylor:
Yes, he is. He has that one dangly earring and he could beat your fucking ass, Zed. He could beat my ass.

Painful Burning:
He's a nice guy.

Sara Taylor:
He's really sweet, and he comes off as a cuddly person but he's not scared to whoop an ass.

Painful Burning:
I've been in a fight with him.

Sara Taylor:
No, you haven't.

Painful Burning:
Yeah. Not against him.

Sara Taylor:
You were fighting side by side with Chris?

Painful Burning:
Yeah.

Sara Taylor:
No way.

Painful Burning:
We don't need to get into it.

Sara Taylor:
Really? You fought with Chris?

Painful Burning:
Yeah.

Sara Taylor:
He probably beat a fucking ass. You guys should be on WWF. The Punks, with an x.

Painful Burning:
So you have four new songs including, "Consuming Guilt," which seems well liked.

Sara Taylor:
I think people like it, I think it's doing decently. It was produced by Josh Eustis who does Sons of Magdalene and Telefon Tel Aviv. He's such a monumental electronic artist that he really helped shift our sound, to bring together what we wanted to do. As far as production wise, Ryan and I can record all day in our house and it's not going to sound as good as this dude who's a genius. Really knowing how to EQ stuff. We didn't really know what we were doing when we started. Even when we did the LP we had Jeff helping us but we rush, rush, rush, rush, rushed. The mix is what it is. On the LP it really captured this essence of us that was like, "Fuck off, this is what we're doing." Like, "It doesn't have to sound good, this is who we are." On this we wanted to come back and be like, "Okay, we've been doing this and we've figured out a couple things." So, this is who we are, but we're a little bit more grown up. We've put one leg of our big boy pants on.

Painful Burning:
Then the next recording is going to have both legs in the big boy pants?

Sara Taylor:
We're going to pull the pants up. We'll officially be wearing the big boy pants. I think, I hope.

Painful Burning:
It's important with the responsibility of having a kid.

Sara Taylor:
You got to be a really good parent. I can't just feed our kid Craft Mac 'n' Cheese forever.

Painful Burning:
No Capri Suns.

Sara Taylor:
I could give it a Capri Sun but then it'll grow up to be a dick.

Painful Burning:
The EP is you guys starting to juice and then the LP is going to be cold pressed ten dollar juices.

Sara Taylor:
Yeah, definitely.

Painful Burning:
Have you guys started even thinking about the LP?

Sara Taylor:
We've started putting stuff together here and there. Ryan's started getting new gear which is cool. Ryan's fucking super smart. When he gives me an idea, I go, "That's cool," or, "That's uncool," or, "I want to do this," or, "I don't want to do this." Ryan's writing dictates where I'm going with how hard I want to go with vocals. The way we write is, "Let's get some skeletons down first and we'll add some muscle and tissue and figure it out from there." I don't know, maybe we'll scrap everything a week before the record is due and rerecord something.

Sara Taylor looks off camera.

Painful Burning:
What are you doing between now and when the tour starts?

Sara Taylor:
Next Wednesday we're going to go to Japan for a week. We've got some stuff we're doing there which will be fucking cool. It's mostly a paid vacation. We just filmed a video yesterday for "Consuming Guilt." That was tight.

Painful Burning:
And 2 Chainz wouldn't be in it?

Sara Taylor:
No, we tried. I just found out my manager knows 2 Chainz so I should've dropped her name. I hate doing that. He was doing a video next door to us. Have I known that information I still wouldn't have been like, "Hi, 2 Chainz, how are you?"

Painful Burning:
Mr. Chainz.

Sara Taylor:
Did you know he used to be called Tity Boi?

Painful Burning:
Yeah.

Sara Taylor:
What if I called him Tity Boi, do you think he would've been mad?

Painful Burning:
Yes, because he should be addressed as Mr. Boi.

Sara Taylor:
Okay. Mr. Boi Chainz. Boi Chainz?

Painful Burning:
Chainz Boi. Chain Boy.

Sara Taylor:
Chain Boy? I don't think he would like that. I wouldn't have talked to him anyways because I'm super intimidated by people. Especially rap people. I just feel like once you're on a certain level having your bodyguards around you all the time you don't want some shithead punk girl coming up to you like, "What's up, man? How are you?" Maybe I'm wrong. I'm usually pretty shy.

Painful Burning:
Maybe they want the shithead punk girl to come up because that's different than the normal rap fans.

Sara Taylor:
Maybe. Maybe we'll do a 2 Chainz collab. I know that Lil B follows us on Twitter. I think he follows a lot of people though.

Painful Burning:
The collab with him would be called Based Code.

Sara Taylor:
That would be fucking sick.

Painful Burning:
Who directed the video for "Consuming Guilt?"

Sara Taylor:
This guy, Grant Singer. He's done a bunch of really rad videos. He did stuff for Soft Moon and Sky Ferreira and stuff like that. He approached us about doing a video.

Painful Burning:
That's awesome. But your neck hurts today?

Sara Taylor:
I have an insane pinched nerve in the back of my neck. It's super tense. I did a lot of pretty brutal shots yesterday. I don't want to give away too much about the video but I did some brutal shots, then went into doing live footage, and now my neck is fucked. So I don't know what I'm going to do when I get to Japan. Do I get a massage this week? Do you think that'll help?

Painful Burning:
Yes.

Sara Taylor:
Acupuncture maybe?

Painful Burning:
Yes. What else are you going to do this week?

Sara Taylor:
What are my plans this week?

Painful Burning:
What do you when you have a week off before touring?

Sara Taylor:
I have to practice because we've never done any of these new songs live. So we have to do some practice stuff. I might go get a manicure. I just got one though. I always have dreams of my nails falling off.

Painful Burning:
Most people have dreams where their teeth fall out.

Sara Taylor:
I never get that one, I always get my nails falling off. It's centered around a lot of shame.

Painful Burning:
Are you consuming guilt?

Sara Taylor:
Lots of it. All the time.

Painful Burning:
Speaking of painful situations, are you going to be playing any Magic: the Gathering this week?

Sara Taylor:
I wish. I haven't tapped any mana in quite some time. I'd really like to.

Painful Burning:
I was going to ask you about the vegan thing.

Sara Taylor:
Who cares?

Painful Burning:
I do.

Sara Taylor:
I think if you're vegan it's cool, if you're not it's cool. I don't really care.

Painful Burning:
Why does it bother you so much that Ryan doesn't like Motorhead?

Sara Taylor:
I can't trust him. Do you like Motorhead, Zed?

Painful Burning:
I like that song, "Ace of Spades," but I'm not avidly listening to their albums. The mood I'd be in to listen to Motorhead I'd rather listen to Black Sabbath.

Sara Taylor:
I don't know about that decision.

Painful Burning:
What is the specific mood to listen to Motorhead?

Sara Taylor:
It's the same mood as Pantera. I'm going to fucking do something, anything, and I'm going to do it full force. Motorhead is louder than anything else.

Painful Burning:
But why does it bother you that Ryan doesn't like it?

Sara Taylor:
Because it's crucial music. I don't understand people who don't like crucial things. Ryan also doesn't fuck with Pantera and it hurts me inside. I feel like Pantera is so real. Pantera and Motorhead are a state of mind. You like things that are slower than Pantera, that's why you said Black Sabbath instead of Motorhead. You're a slower vehicle.

Painful Burning:
I'm slow.

Sara Taylor:
Right now I'm in the Lamborghini of metal and you're in the Datsun of metal.

Painful Burning:
Or maybe I'm in the Prius.

Sara Taylor:
Maybe you're in the Prius, I don't know.

Painful Burning:
What is the group that you don't like that bothers Ryan?

Sara Taylor:
There isn't any.

Painful Burning:
Because you're perfect?

Sara Taylor:
Well no, because I listen to so much different shit and Ryan has really good taste. I fuck with the stuff that he fucks with. There's nothing he listens to that I'm like, "Ugh, god." He listens to sad boy music and I fuck with that. He listens to a lot of electronic stuff. I fuck with that. He listens to hardcore and I fuck with that. He just doesn't like hessian stuff. That's fine but...

Painful Burning:
He has short hair.

Sara Taylor:
He does have short hair. He's very militant. He doesn't fuck with any long hair stuff. That's fine. I've had to learn to trust him even though he's kind of suspect.

Sara Taylor is captured.

Painful Burning:
When you spoke to your manager did they advise you not to do this interview?

Sara Taylor:
No. They don't really get the opportunity to advise me against anything. If I'm pretty head on about doing stuff I'm really fucking head on. I'm Zed on.

Painful Burning:
I'm Zed on as well.

Sara Taylor:
Do you ever say that when you're going out on an adventure? "I'm going to Zed on out to this."

Painful Burning:
No, I used to more, but I feel like it's arrogant when I say those things.

Sara Taylor:
I would say I was Zeddin' on out.

Painful Burning:
If your name was Zed?

Sara Taylor:
Yeah. Zed is also just Z in many modern languages so I'd say, "Z you later."

Painful Burning:
Okay, I'll Z you later. That's the end.

-Z

Whirr - Sway (Graveface) (2014)

Whirr's been making loud music for a few years now. Sway is their most dream-like release yet. It does a great job capturing the unconscious fogging up reality. It's slow, it's thick, but it's not heavy. You'll forget most of it by the time you stop listening. And just like a dream, bits and pieces will be recalled throughout the entire waking day. Those instances are standout tracks, "Mumble" and "Lines." Sway is the audio equivalent of fog rolling over the Marin Headlands trying to engulf San Francisco in wet euphoria.

Sway and Nothing's Guilty Of Everything are strong cases for guitar music creating its own distorted realities in 2014. Both bands are raising the bar for what is to be expected from dreams. Feel good downer rock.

-Z

Interview: William (My Dad)

"I don't want to talk about that."

I've known William for over thirty years now. William is my dad. He's seventy years old. A lot of my friends like talking to him. He calls me at least three times every day. It can be really difficult getting off the phone with him. I love William. I love my dad. So naturally I interviewed him to get to the bottom of it all.

He was visiting so we got coffee at Blue Bottle and ate at Zinc. We talked about some of his beginnings. We talked about his introductions to music. We talked about why he doesn't want me to kiss him on the lips.

Maybe I'll do some more interviews with him in the future. He isn't dying anytime soon.

William drinks a mango and spinach smoothie.

Painful Burning:
When were you born?

William:
A long time ago.

Painful Burning:
Can you be more specific?

William:
I was born in the spring of '44.

Painful Burning:
Can you be more specific than that?

William:
No, spring of '44.

Painful Burning:
Why don't you say your birthday?

William:
Because I don't want anybody to know.

Painful Burning:
Why?

William:
I don't think it should be out there. Once you get your birth date they can know exactly what's going on inside you.

Painful Burning:
And you don't want people to know that?

William:
No, because I'm not my chart anymore.

Painful Burning:
So this is because of astrology?

William:
And numerology. And I'm not my chart anymore. In other words, I'm not my ego structure. There's ways of transcending beyond it.

Painful Burning:
And you've transcended that?

William:
Well, no, because my whole chart says I'm transcendent.

Painful Burning:
So we now know when you were born, roughly, when are you going to die?

William:
Probably in my nineties close to one hundred. Unless the whole world goes before I die, which it might.

Painful Burning:
Do you remember the first time you listened to music?

William:
Yeah. I was... I'm trying to remember what age I was. I heard Lymon singing, "Why Do Fools Fall In Love." I was in a school bus in Far Rockaway, Queens, by the ocean, I was in a camp bus and I heard Frankie Lymon singing, "Why Do Fools Fall In Love." I just fell in love with it. Then I started falling in love with doo-wop because I worked in a diner.

Painful Burning:
What age was that?

William:
Eleven, or something like that. I was falling in love with doo-wop because it was played on an old jukebox. All of a sudden it was all about the music. Always.

Painful Burning:
Do you remember the first time you heard rock 'n' roll?

William:
I remember Chuck Berry and all those type of guys. I remember when the rock 'n' roll bin was only a foot or two of rock 'n' roll. That was all. It was far from full. I suspect Elvis was a big part of changing that, exposing it. And rockabilly as well... "Rebel Rouser" by Duane Eddy.

William hanging out with Ross in Bolinas.

Painful Burning:
What did you think of rock 'n' roll when you first heard it?

William:
I think back in those days everybody loved it, or at least I did. The only thing is now you have your phone and you have your music things you can take with you. There was nothing to put in the car, there were no tape decks. Nothing. So you were totally dependent on the music show that you were listening to. Back in New York it was Alan Freed, Wolfman Jack, or people like this. You were dependent on them. You thought you had found yourself in a secret world of music that adults didn't listen to. And the music was so good. You could only hear it on the radio, if your car had a radio. Not all cars had radios.

Painful Burning:
So when you traveled on the subway in New York you were without music.

William:
No walkmens, no iPods.

Painful Burning:
In the sixties it seems like marijuana became a big part of mainstream culture.

William:
Very late fifties, very late fifties for some of us who were in the know. Late fifties, early sixties is when it all started to happen. But in those days there were no hippies. It was beatniks, bohemians, you had to be an artist.

Painful Burning:
Did music just change in the sixties when everybody started smoking weed?

William:
Smoking weed and doing hallucinogenics.

Painful Burning:
Do you remember the change? When you put on the radio and it sounded psychedelic? Or was it a gradual change?

William:
By the time I was into it, it was psychedelic like 13th Floor Elevators and groups like that. The psychedelic sounds starting coming through, The Beatles and the Stones, they had albums that made it obvious they were heavy into acid and stuff like this. There was a whole culture that was built around this called the hippies which was real different that the beatniks. Because for the beatniks you had to be an artist, a bohemian, an intellectual. While for the hippies all you had to do was do drugs and then you were okay. Most people didn't do alcohol it was just drugs, pot... Which isn't really a drug anymore. But, all the hallucinogens, mushrooms, all those things were popular. The music went to feed that kind of stuff. So did the fashions, so did the lava lamps. By the time I was getting out of it, everybody was getting into it in the seventies. They were starting to move into the direction that some of us were already moving out of. You grew your hair long, tried to grow a beard, and patched up your jeans.

Painful Burning:
What about the weekend hippies?

William:
Those were the people who backed their bed by working and going to college and getting regular jobs. Then on the weekend they would costume it and try to be hip and cool. Opposed to us, for instance living communally and living on ranches and farms in the middle of nowhere. Running around doing hippie stuff.

Painful Burning:
Do you find any of the youth culture today mimicking that?

William:
Completely. I think we established certain historical reference points in this country for music and art in the fifties and sixties. But now they don't have the passion for creativity we had. It's now like hip-hop, just sampling the past.

Painful Burning:
How is it different now than how it was? Not technologically.

William:
You can't separate it. Technology has changed everything. iPods, cell phones.

Painful Burning:
So you think technology has dictated a difference in youth culture today?

William:
Yeah.

Painful Burning:
How is it different?

William:
Back in New York City, when I was growing up, people always carried books around. You'd always see them reading somewhere. Even if it was magazines or a newspaper. I think that's all disappearing, people are always on their cell phones or iPads or whatever they have. I don't see anybody reading anymore.

Painful Burning:
They're reading on their phone. Now you can read the newspaper on your phone.

William:
That's true. But I don't know if they're reading books. Like I'm trying to get you to read that Thomas Ligotti book. I don't know if you're going to read it.


William points to the Blue Bottle.

Painful Burning:
What have you been listening to lately?

William:
I like a lot of stuff, so I can listen to everything. The older Murder City Devils albums to what-was-that... Endangered Dragon. "Breathing in the chemicals, waiting for the apocalypse." That sounds really cool. There's some really good covers of that song.

Painful Burning:
That you found on YouTube?

William:
Yeah, I love YouTube.

Painful Burning:
Is that your favorite way of listening to music now? It's like a giant jukebox.

William:
Yeah, I like to go listen to Emmy Lou Harris or some guys out of the forties and fifties that sang country or even Iggy Pop. All that stuff. Sometimes it's what you tell me. We'll talk about it and then I start looking it up. Or what Ross says. Or what Skyler says. Even Tristan influences some of my listening. I really like watching Assassin's Creed and figuring out the philosophical reality of the game.

Painful Burning:
You don't own any video game systems but you like watching clips of the games on YouTube?

William:
Yeah, where the music is cool and the guy runs around killing everybody. That's pretty cool, the way he does it, the guy in Assassin's Creed. Because he's going through time and space. Philosophically he goes through it by going through phylogenetic ancestral memory banks which I've been talking about for forty years.

Painful Burning:
I don't need to hear about that right now. Do you feel like all the contemporary music is mimicking the music from your youth?

William:
I think people are sampling everything. Unless you're going to devise a brand new music, like my generation was part of, today, you can't do that. Because what are you going to do? You're either going to sound like doo-wop, if you got backups, you're going to sound like rockabilly, you're going to sound like country and western, you're going to sound like bluegrass music, you're going to sound like music from England, you're going to sound like... I don't know, the Fine Young Cannibals, or whatever. Whatever it is you grew up with you're going to sample. You might say, "I'm just sampling the latest guys." Yeah, but you're sampling the latest guys that sampled the older guys.

Painful Burning:
By sampled you mean taking influence from.

William:
Yeah.

Painful Burning:
Not literally sampling.

William:
No. But some if it sure sounds like it.

Painful Burning:
That's funny you say your generation devised a brand new music because you had no part in it, you weren't in any bands.

William:
Actually, Zed, I was in two bands at the time but not very long. I wasn't very good.

Painful Burning:
What did you do in those bands?

William:
I played drums for a while and I played harp. And I tried to sing but it didn't work. It's not my thing.

Painful Burning:
Why didn't it work? Were you not a good singer?

William:
I'm not a good singer. My harp was just beginnings. My drumming... I didn't really pursue that so.

William stands firmly outside Zinc.

Painful Burning:
Why do you get so weird when I try to kiss you on the lips?

William:
I don't even want to talk about it, it's so dumb.

Painful Burning:
Why is it dumb, if you love someone shouldn't you be able to kiss them on the lips?

William:
I don't mind doing that but when you start doing it just to get attention in front of people...

Painful Burning:
Why do you think it's to get attention, why don't you think it's because I love you?

William:
I don't know. I don't want to talk about that.

Painful Burning:
Why?

William:
I don't know. It's okay, I don't care.

Painful Burning:
You've crossed urine streams with me.

William:
That's true, we have. Why do you make this personal? I want to talk about abstractional things. I don't just want to talk about peeing and psychologically analyzing each other at this moment.

Painful Burning:
Do you think men should pee with each other and kiss each other on the lips?

William:
Yeah, I think it's fine.

Painful Burning:
In the sixties did you ever do that?

William:
No, you hugged your friends a lot.

Painful Burning:
Did you ever kiss any of your friends?

William:
Yeah, I kissed them on the cheek and they kissed me. Sometimes they said they loved me, and I loved them.

Painful Burning:
Did you ever experiment with guys in the sixties?

William:
No. No.

Painful Burning:
Are you sure?

William:
Unless I was passed out.

Painful Burning:
So you're saying it was possible?

William:
I don't know. If I was passed out on something, I don't know.

Painful Burning:
You're saying it was possible in the sixties that you were passed out multiple times and you hooked up with guys?

William:
I don't remember any of that, Zed.

Painful Burning:
You don't remember but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

William:
Unlikely.

Painful Burning:
Does mom know about this?

William:
Know about what?

Painful Burning:
About the possibility of you hooking up with guys.

William:
Who said hooking up? What are you doing here? I did not hook up. I don't like guys that way.

Painful Burning:
So mom doesn't know about this?

William:
Here we go, pursuing this. I want to take this to another level and you want to take it here. When did you become so psychological, Zed?

Painful Burning:
Just answer the question.

William:
I'm saying anything is possible. For all I know maybe I was touched when I was three months old.

Painful Burning:
Does mom know you were touched when you were three months old?

William:
I'll have to talk to my father and find out whether or not.

Painful Burning:
Isn't he dead?

William:
I'll have to talk to him somehow if he ever touched me inappropriately. I'll have to talk to him on the other side. But I don't think so because he was really into girls. Or he seemed to be. Maybe he was just one of those guys who pretended that he was but was really into guys.

Painful Burning:
Are you one of those guys?

William:
No.

Painful Burning:
Do you mind if mom reads this interview?

William:
About what?

Painful Burning:
Just this entire interview?

William:
Oh, this is an interview?

Painful Burning:
I'm recording this.

William:
Oh.


William crosses his arms.

Painful Burning:
You knew that.

William:
No, I just thought you were going to take a part of it. Can we talk about something else? I don't want to talk about that shit. I want to talk about other things.

Painful Burning:
What do you want to talk about? What are the subjects you want to talk about?

William:
Like, I'm not impressed by this planet. That's what I'd really like to get into.

Painful Burning:
What else?

William:
The ontology and beginnings of consciousness as we know it and particularly to this planet and where it's all going and why it's going there and how to witness correctly by being objectively observant. And what's reality and how do we talk about these things? And why are we all working so hard? What is it that you got to work for? Who made that law up? You got to have a job? What is that law?

Painful Burning:
When was the last time you smoked weed?

William:
Probably when I was twenty three. So what's twenty three from seventy?

Painful Burning:
Forty seven.

William:
Probably about forty seven years ago.

Painful Burning:
Do you think you're still high?

William:
That's also when I stopped doing all the hallucinogens.

Painful Burning:
Do you think you're still a little high? Or have you always been this way?

William:
I've always been this way. You don't want to hear about all my stories of what happened to me when I was four or five years old in the marshlands of Brooklyn, do you?

Painful Burning:
Not really.

William:
Well I could tell you all those stories.

Painful Burning:
What are you implying? We don't have to get too deep into those stories.

William:
Some of us are born this way.

Painful Burning:
What does that mean?

William:
That I'm schizophrenic. I have one leg in reality and one leg in what is it not assumed for most people is reality.

Painful Burning:
And this happened in the marshlands?

William:
Do you remember when you were born? Can you actually remember crawling around?

Painful Burning:
No.

William:
I can remember crawling around.

Painful Burning:
I'm asking you the questions, you can't ask me questions.

William:
So there I was in the marshlands-

Painful Burning:
-Just sum it up in a sentence.

William:
It was not of this Earth the way normal people are.

Painful Burning:
What is not of this Earth?

William:
The experiences I had.

Painful Burning:
What are you implying?

William:
There are unearthly realities. Most people are stuck with just being on Earth.

Painful Burning:
In one sentence what happened in the marshlands?

William:
I got in touch with other realities at about four or five years old walking by myself in the marshlands off the ocean for long times.

Painful Burning:
Where were these marshlands?

William:
In Brooklyn. I experienced things. At one point I didn't come home until the sun came down. Grandma got real scared because I was experiencing an ecstatic blissed out kind of reality but she thought someone had taken me or something. When I told her about it she thought I had a sun stroke.

Painful Burning:
Do you have any worries about this interview?

William:
I hope you quote me correctly.

Painful Burning:
Do you have any negative criticisms about me, your son?

William:
You don't talk to me enough.

Painful Burning:
That's the end.

William:
I want more.

Painful Burning:
That the end of the interview.

William:
What kind of interview is that?

Painful Burning:
It's the one we just had.

William:
I want more.

Painful Burning:
You'll have to wait until next time. Bye.

William is being loved.

-Z